Bermuda's Most Popular Discussion Forum
March 28, 2017, 05:08:22 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:   Bunny  Welcome to Bermuda Is Another World.  Bunny  We feel our Forum, founded in 2007, is now more necessary than ever!  With increasing media censorship of reader comments, and the unfortunate demise of The Sun, BIAW continues to stand strong for truth, integrity, and free speech.  Bunny  Plus a little craziness!  Bunny  Please join us, and tell us what’s on your mind.  Bunny  Created in Bermuda by Bermudians for everyone who truly loves our Island.  Bunny  Officially sanctioned by the Emperor of Rabbit Island.  Bunny
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Morgan's Point Development  (Read 2415 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« on: January 08, 2016, 04:24:53 PM »

http://bernews.com/2016/01/dd-morgans-point-remediation-completed/
Now that the clean up of Morgan's Point has been completed it is a good time to start a new thread as there is sure to be a lot more discussion regarding the development.

Obviously the required remediation was not as extensive as the media and the PLP Government made it out to be and could have been completed 10 years ago. By now a resort could have been fully operational on Morgan's Point.

Looking at the artist renderings, adding today's blustery weather and it raises the question about how close the buildings will be to the sea. I have been out to the point on a day like today when it was the USN NOB and there was a lot of sea water coming on shore. Over the past 40 years Bermuda beaches have been disappearing due to storm surges and higher sea level. I would not invest in one of the waterfront residences even if they are built to withstand 150 mph winds, the storm surge could take out the lower floor anyway.

Since the development hasn't received final approval and other than the Government guarantees there has been no public confirmation of financing it's not likely any buildings will be completed for occupation by AC35. IMHO it will be 2020 before a 50 room hotel opens the doors on Morgan's Point.
Logged
widget
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 122
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Awards:
Done GoodHomesteaderBright Idea
Posts: 609


« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2016, 08:13:02 AM »

... I would not invest in one of the waterfront residences even if they are built to withstand 150 mph winds, the storm surge could take out the lower floor anyway.

But that's no reason not to purchase Nu-Uh 

What you should do is buy an upper-level (or even top floor) apartment, then even if the lower floor gets "taken away", you'll be too high up to need to worry. lmao
Logged

Moderation.....in most things...
cash bar
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 166
Offline Offline

Awards:
1000 Post ThreadDone GoodHomesteaderLoyal MemberTin Foil HatLocked Thread
Posts: 1105


« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 01:47:36 PM »

Looking at the artist renderings, adding today's blustery weather and it raises the question about how close the buildings will be to the sea. I have been out to the point on a day like today when it was the USN NOB and there was a lot of sea water coming on shore. Over the past 40 years Bermuda beaches have been disappearing due to storm surges and higher sea level. I would not invest in one of the waterfront residences even if they are built to withstand 150 mph winds, the storm surge could take out the lower floor anyway.

IMO   all of  these  artist renderings are just  pie in the sky .   Besides what you mention above  if you  look at these renderings what appears to be one of the main hotel or residence buildings is about 8 feet from the shore  on a  lovely sandy beach  that does not even exist in George's Bay .
In  Fabian there was an 8 foot tidal surge in there and  not only that , in the last 25-30 years the area has developed an extensive mangrove forest around the entire shore . I thought that it was now illegal to destroy any mangrove developments .

Two other 'lovely'  beaches in the renderings as you head  east around the shoreline also do not exist and if they try to build artificial ones they will only wash away as there is no natural  beaches in the Little Sound  by design of nature .
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 12:56:17 PM »

Cash Bar, if a couple of us are questioning the viability of this proposed development it really makes you wonder what is really going to be built on Morgan's Point.

Christensen, Hunt and Duperreault thought Ewrat Brown made them a great deal in 2010 by proposing the Southlands swap for Morgan's Point and Dodgy Doc has probably been laughing ever since.

Ewrat and PLP got credit for saving Southlands while Morgan's Point development is still stumbling along under the present Government.  Face Palm      
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 01:18:17 PM by AMCAN » Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2016, 01:04:39 PM »

http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20160316/NEWS04/160319771
It's good news that Arch, Axis and Validus have committed to cover the "first round" of the financing for phase one of the development. March 2015 Christensen went public announcing plans had been submitted to 'Planning' and he expected shovels would in-the-ground in June (2015) and hoped that the marina would be completed in time for AC35. Since then fewer hotel rooms, more residences and fewer large yacht slips have been announced, sort of. The final plans haven't shown up yet so that would indicate approval hasn't been give yet either.

Based on Christensen's 2015 announcement regarding timing the marina may be completed in 2018. Using Tucker's Point construction time as a gage, MP phase one might be completed in 2020. Other than the Green Family developments every other major Bermuda tourism development going back 15 years has been years behind schedule. It is ridiculous for developers and the Government to continue to make veiled promises regarding start and completion dates for developments when common sense says it ain't gonna happen!   

Additional financing will be required to complete phase one and the development cost hasn't been released but I'm guessing it will be $350M - $400M. MP has already entered into partnership with Bermuda Realty to set up Morgan's Point Realty Ltd. to sell the residences as as soon as the plans are approved.

Trippe thought Tucker's Point residences and fractionals would sell quickly to finance the development but in the end Trippe lost his investment and some investors are still holding the bag. TP, Reefs, and Newstead still have fractionals that haven't sold, what makes MP group think they can sell enough residences/condos to finance more of phase one??

This development may eventually get completed and be a success but that is years away. Don't forget a resort has to earn its reputation and building a luxury resort doesn't guarantee success. 
Logged
Great8
Full Member
***

Warm Fuzzies: 29
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Awards:
Homesteader
Posts: 120



« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2016, 04:42:14 PM »

AMCAN - I'm curious about the terms of this financing... any chance we'll ever find out the terms?
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2016, 05:00:34 PM »

AMCAN - I'm curious about the terms of this financing... any chance we'll ever find out the terms?

I would say chances are slim and none to find out financing terms unless the development goes into receivership at some point. I'm guessing collateral would be a piece of the property or a few of the residences/condos or both. I don't think the reinsurance guys would want any piece of the hotel.   
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2016, 12:45:24 PM »

http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20160317/NEWS/160319718
This confirms that Ritz-Carlton Reserve is planning on 2018 as being the year Morgan's Point will have a completed hotel. Think I will stick with 2020 being the year phase one (hotel) construction will be completed. Yes
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2016, 02:24:12 PM »

http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20160318/BUSINESS/160319708
Don't want to sound pessimistic but building 35 luxury villas (5 buildings) and a marina for mega-yachts within a year when final design approval has not been issued yet will require a miracle. A year ago Christensen was saying on YouTube that work would start in June (2015) for the villas and marina so they could be completed in time for AC35. A year later and he still says it will be completed in time for AC35.

I wish them success but very wealthy buyers and mega-yacht owners are not likely to risk much in advance knowing the first part of the development is already a year behind schedule. Morgan's Point is already earning their reputation, the last thing they can afford is a bad reputation if everything is not in place to meet the needs of the very wealthy. Excuses and apologies will not work.     

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFkyqdmYPZE
Logged
baileys bay
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 178
Offline Offline

Awards:
AdventurerLoyal Member
Posts: 950


« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2016, 11:57:57 PM »

http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20160316/NEWS04/160319771
It's good news that Arch, Axis and Validus have committed to cover the "first round" of the financing for phase one of the development. March 2015 Christensen went public announcing plans had been submitted to 'Planning' and he expected shovels would in-the-ground in June (2015) and hoped that the marina would be completed in time for AC35. Since then fewer hotel rooms, more residences and fewer large yacht slips have been announced, sort of. The final plans haven't shown up yet so that would indicate approval hasn't been give yet either.

Based on Christensen's 2015 announcement regarding timing the marina may be completed in 2018. Using Tucker's Point construction time as a gage, MP phase one might be completed in 2020. Other than the Green Family developments every other major Bermuda tourism development going back 15 years has been years behind schedule. It is ridiculous for developers and the Government to continue to make veiled promises regarding start and completion dates for developments when common sense says it ain't gonna happen!   

Additional financing will be required to complete phase one and the development cost hasn't been released but I'm guessing it will be $350M - $400M. MP has already entered into partnership with Bermuda Realty to set up Morgan's Point Realty Ltd. to sell the residences as as soon as the plans are approved.

Trippe thought Tucker's Point residences and fractionals would sell quickly to finance the development but in the end Trippe lost his investment and some investors are still holding the bag. TP, Reefs, and Newstead still have fractionals that haven't sold, what makes MP group think they can sell enough residences/condos to finance more of phase one??

This development may eventually get completed and be a success but that is years away. Don't forget a resort has to earn its reputation and building a luxury resort doesn't guarantee success. 

It's my understanding (from another company approached to provide either an investment or financing) that the total from all three who did participate is about $15 million, or $5 million each. The security for these loans is provided by the Bda Gov't guaranty. These are not investments, simply loans provided mostly (if not wholly) because Brian Duperrault asked.

As for fractionals, perhaps Ritz Carltons name will persuade a few more lookers to become buyers but as discussed before, the market of people interested in Bermuda fractionals is in the hundreds, not thousands...and most who were interested and had the money to purchase have already done so.

I agree with AMCAN, a very late 2018 if not 2020 completion based on a post Q1 start...and that assumes the PLP doesn't win the next election, which I believe they will. If the PLP returns, my bet is there will be no start.
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 02:17:40 PM »

Obviously the RG article was misleading with the impression that Arch, Axis and Validus had stepped forward to provide funding for the first round of phase one. The $15M sounds more believable and doesn't amount to much more than seed money to keep the development image alive while looking for another $60M - $75M needed to build 35 residences and the mega-yacht marina. After the recent Government fiasco with the immigration bill and the possibility of the PLP returning to power within 2 years investors will be shying away from Bermuda.

The continuing decline in tourism and poor sales record for fractionals are negatives too. This shows how critical it was for the BTA to understand that Bermuda needed a unique marketing strategy immediately to prove that Bermuda was still a viable brand.

Croc 'n Dod didn't have a new plan for the BTA they hired Emperor Billy and let him set up an empire and social circle that has failed to stem the decline in tourism. Ewrat has to be laughing at the failure of the BTA to improve on his dismal DoT record. This is why the PLP are not really demanding results from the BTA they are just letting the BTA continue to repeat failed schemes.

I said long time ago Ewrat and friends would end up owning Morgan's Point, the Government and BTA have played right into his plan.  Yes     
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 04:18:48 PM »

http://www.royalgazette.com/news/article/20160421/fahy-happy-with-morgans-point-progress
Not sure what this photo op was for, maybe to keep public from asking when work will start in St. George's hotel. When will Government or Michael Douglas tell the public that Ariel Sands development is not going to happen. The Ariel Sands website is so outdated it looks bad. It is ridiculous for the Government to keep saying in 'press releases' that Ariel Sands is still a 'GO' when it is really stopped. 
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2017, 02:27:47 PM »

http://www.royalgazette.com/business/article/20170130/caroline-bay-homes-for-sale--from-25m

One of the major factors in a successful business venture is "faith" but in the case of the Morgan's point development I have to wonder how long the investors will maintain that "faith". I wonder how long the present Government can have enough "faith" to maintain their $150M guarantee and would a PLP government maintain the "faith" too? Morgan's Point/Ritz Carlton $2.5 - $3.9M and Pink Beach/The Loren $4.2M both need buyers that can afford the price plus the initial taxes & fees and the yearly taxes, maintenance fees and general upkeep.

The person(s) that can afford these homes/condos/villas are more than just wealthy, they are looking for an investment not just a home in Bermuda. They want a warm fuzzy feeling that their Bermuda investment will always maintain its value. The person(s) who can afford a property in this price range are looking for year-round beach weather or great skiing for 4 or 5 months.

Obviously the hotel will not be built until 'X' number of the homes are sold in Phase One to bring in working capital.

Hate to feel or sound pessimistic but the failure of the "fractional" market in Bermuda, decline in IB and decline in the number of visitors staying more than 3 or 4 nights leaves only a dream that buyers will come.           
Logged
baileys bay
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 178
Offline Offline

Awards:
AdventurerLoyal Member
Posts: 950


« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2017, 03:29:48 PM »

http://www.royalgazette.com/business/article/20170130/caroline-bay-homes-for-sale--from-25m

One of the major factors in a successful business venture is "faith" but in the case of the Morgan's point development I have to wonder how long the investors will maintain that "faith". I wonder how long the present Government can have enough "faith" to maintain their $150M guarantee and would a PLP government maintain the "faith" too? Morgan's Point/Ritz Carlton $2.5 - $3.9M and Pink Beach/The Loren $4.2M both need buyers that can afford the price plus the initial taxes & fees and the yearly taxes, maintenance fees and general upkeep.

The person(s) that can afford these homes/condos/villas are more than just wealthy, they are looking for an investment not just a home in Bermuda. They want a warm fuzzy feeling that their Bermuda investment will always maintain its value. The person(s) who can afford a property in this price range are looking for year-round beach weather or great skiing for 4 or 5 months.

Obviously the hotel will not be built until 'X' number of the homes are sold in Phase One to bring in working capital.

Hate to feel or sound pessimistic but the failure of the "fractional" market in Bermuda, decline in IB and decline in the number of visitors staying more than 3 or 4 nights leaves only a dream that buyers will come.           

Amcan, I agree with most of what you are saying however I'm not sure it's completely accurate to say that the fractional market failed in Bermuda.
In fact (imho) the failure was on the part of developers post Tuckers Point who either did not do their homework or, more likely, chose to ignore what they learned from speaking with the Tuckers Point sales people...which is that a market study done by Tuckers Point using zip code data on tourists as gathered by the Bda Tourism people over a number of years showed pretty conclusively that the universe of potential buyers for a fractional product at the Bermuda price point was measured in the hundreds, NOT thousands.
I've talked about this a bit some time ago but briefly I think what happened in the case of the Reefs and the rest was that the "developers" never took the rose coloured, lets focus only on supply glasses that were standard wear for real estate people in Bermuda until 2009 or so so didn't see/recognize/believe that maybe, no probably, Tuckers Point had captured pretty much 100% of the supply of buyers for fractionals....and of course their lenders were wearing the same pink tinted glasses.
So, like the Hamilton office space market, the oversupply will take some considerable time to be absorbed. Be interesting to see if any of the new developers dive into this same shallow pool and get hurt as a result.
Logged
AMCAN
Hero Member
*****

Warm Fuzzies: 276
Offline Offline

Awards:
Loyal MemberHomesteader
Posts: 2646


« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2017, 07:06:42 PM »

Baileys Bay.....I agree 100% with the rose coloured glasses, the developers and lenders who came after Tucker's Point were building based on their dream and not focused on the real potential. I really wonder where Caroline Bay and The Loren developers believe their dream buyers are going to come from?
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!